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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose">Thanks for pointing that out Allan. This highlights one of the issues at play here, a large number of mailing lists that appear to duplicate each other.<o:p></o:p></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">The email that started this discussion was about shutting down two mailing lists hosted at Actian (on the old Ingres domain):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><a href="mailto:openroad-developer@lists.ingres.com"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">openroad-developer@lists.ingres.com</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">
<br>
</span><a href="mailto:openroad-community@lists.com"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">openroad-community@lists.com</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">They are low traffic lists, and the difference between the lists was never clear. There was often messages cross posted to them and to external lists, this is what happened to the original email.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">Early on the chain this email was CC’d to
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">openroad-users@googlegroups.com – for more information see
</span><a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openroad-users"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openroad-users</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">
- this is specific to OpenROAD<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org – also see
</span><a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.databases.ingres"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.databases.ingres</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">
- this is for any and all Ingres related posts (for instance sometimes will see OpenROAD and Vector posts)<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">Those lists are not under Actian control, Actian couldn’t shut those lists down, even if someone decided they wanted to
</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"> These lists get pretty regular traffic (and the occasional spam message!
</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😉</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">I’m subscribed to both of those external lists and do lurk/reply occasionally. One of the things I like about the google hosted groups is that if I’m in a hurry I can search using google’s search
interface. I get the best of both worlds; email to read/reply and a better search than my email client (there wasn’t a search option for the Ingres hosted lists).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Allan Biggs [mailto:Allan.Biggs@GBR.dupont.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 13, 2017 3:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> paul.white@shift7solutions.com.au<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Allan Biggs' <allanb4@iname.com>; aw@rationalcommerce.com; Chris Clark <Chris.Clark@actian.com>; 'Ingres lists' <info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org>; info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org; openroad-users@googlegroups.com; Pamela Fowler <Pamela.Fowler@actian.com>;
Steve Bates <Steve.Bates@actian.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Info-ingres] Ingres OpenROAD Mailing lists<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have to confess that I got confused over the exact list</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I responded to an e-mail which came from
<b>openroad-developers</b> list getting a response that my response was being held for moderator approval.
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Coincidentally shortly after I got an email from Steve - saying the lists were being shut down.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have no idea why I got the original e-mail from
<b>openroad-developers list</b> , I didn't look at the list name and apparently I am not a list member , I assumed it was from
<b><a href="mailto:openroad-users@googlegroups.com"><span style="font-weight:normal">openroad-users@googlegroups.com</span></a></b>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Paul's points are well made. The new community forum is IMHO really awful , I tried a few times to get information from it and gave in. I don't have time to casually browse forums for topics that
I might be able to contribute to (like the one below). The old fashioned way via lists in email works really well.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I was under the , maybe false , impression that the 'previous' community forum fed into
<a href="mailto:openroad-users@googlegroups.com">openroad-users@googlegroups.com</a> ,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Allan </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<img border="0" width="1320" height="384" style="width:13.75in;height:4.0in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.gif@01D34400.3415F7A0"><br>
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<img border="0" width="1346" height="1160" style="width:14.025in;height:12.0833in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image003.gif@01D34400.3415F7A0"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">From: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Paul White" <<a href="mailto:paul.white@shift7solutions.com.au">paul.white@shift7solutions.com.au</a>></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">To: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:aw@rationalcommerce.com">aw@rationalcommerce.com</a>>, "'Allan Biggs'" <<a href="mailto:allanb4@iname.com">allanb4@iname.com</a>>,
"'Steve Bates'" <<a href="mailto:Steve.Bates@actian.com">Steve.Bates@actian.com</a>>, "'Chris Clark'" <<a href="mailto:Chris.Clark@actian.com">Chris.Clark@actian.com</a>></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Cc: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">'Ingres lists' <<a href="mailto:info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org">info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org</a>>,
<a href="mailto:openroad-users@googlegroups.com">openroad-users@googlegroups.com</a>, 'Pamela Fowler' <<a href="mailto:Pamela.Fowler@actian.com">Pamela.Fowler@actian.com</a>></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">12/10/2017 21:49</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[EXTERNAL] Re: [Info-ingres] Ingres OpenROAD Mailing lists</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Sent by: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org">info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">Hi all,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">Email list servers have an important place in the community as do forums and chat rooms. I think
<a href="mailto:openroad-developer@lists.ingres.com">openroad-developer@lists.ingres.com</a> and
<a href="mailto:openroad-community@lists.com">openroad-community@lists.com</a> are double ups for similar lists so I don’t object to shutting these list servers.
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">It is important for Mr / Ms Surfer to be able to search the net, quickly find a valid link with useful content with an invitation to follow a link to a open and active community without having to be restricted by
membership protocols.</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">I prefer the simplicity of community mailing lists over the forums.
</span><a href="mailto:info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0082BF">info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> and
</span><a href="mailto:openroad-users@googlegroups.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0082BF">openroad-users@googlegroups.com</span></a>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> provide web portals for people who prefer to browse and search. I find forums a bit cumbersome, and they are unavailable when I am 30km in the air. In my opinion the new “community” forum website is a backwards
step in performance, functionality and presentation. Load times are significantly increased, the default corporate colours are difficult to work with. The content is still far behind the old pages.
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">I hope we can continue to support a two way feed from the forums to the info-ingres email list server. Looking forward to hooking up Openroad-users one day.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">Cheers</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">Paul White</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">&<br>
Shift Seven Solutions<br>
</span><a href="www.shift7solutions.com.au"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080">www.shift7solutions.com.au</span></a>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org">info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org</a> [</span><a href="mailto:info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:info-ingres-bounces@lists.planetingres.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:aw@rationalcommerce.com">aw@rationalcommerce.com</a><b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, 13 October 2017 4:42 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Allan Biggs; Steve Bates; Chris Clark; Ingres lists<b><br>
Cc:</b> Pamela Fowler<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Info-ingres] Ingres OpenROAD Mailing lists</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">I agree with Allan.</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">That community website has stopped my community participation.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">Adrian</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">----- Reply message -----<br>
From: "Allan Biggs" <<a href="mailto:allanb4@iname.com">allanb4@iname.com</a>><br>
To: "Allan Biggs" <<a href="mailto:allanb4@iname.com">allanb4@iname.com</a>>, "Steve Bates" <<a href="mailto:Steve.Bates@actian.com">Steve.Bates@actian.com</a>>, "Chris Clark" <<a href="mailto:Chris.Clark@actian.com">Chris.Clark@actian.com</a>>, "Ingres lists"
<<a href="mailto:info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org">info-ingres@lists.planetingres.org</a>><br>
Cc: "Pamela Fowler" <<a href="mailto:Pamela.Fowler@actian.com">Pamela.Fowler@actian.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Info-ingres] Ingres OpenROAD Mailing lists<br>
Date: Thu, Oct 12, 2017 18:42</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
-- <br>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt">On 12/10/2017, 18:39 Allan Biggs <<a href="mailto:allanb4@iname.com">allanb4@iname.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">That is a massive mistake. If you are interested in why please reply to my email<br>
<br>
Allan Biggs <br>
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Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On 12/10/2017, 18:17 Steve Bates <</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__Steve.Bates&d=DwMFaQ&c=zRqMG_fghhK--2M6Q5UUdA&r=NR3Ih16COg3iVzf1V6AnysHgZxJHe-pkPnBl5lbRPSY&m=7Bmf8dKFaYAN9Qa1DofgzoI07hphO96Pblyi5IGYB2A&s=tvwWEMVnNNid8cfrtqbTafLmhzkxQ7N9imnRrF34gVE&e="><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#0082BF">Steve.Bates</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">@actian.com>
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